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Post Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:08 am

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Well, I just want to state before I go into details that this is COMPLETELY bias and this is based off my own opinion. And I like to point this out to all server admins and players that play on servers that stream PunksBusted. Please read the whole thing and post and if its to much to read, don't even bother starting.

I also like to note that I do not and never have condone the use of any type of game cheats in the online gaming community.



Well this little story should be used as a warning and nothing else. Okay now, this dates back to October 29th of 2009. I started researching on a better system of map/mod retrieval for our game servers. Someone once mentioned to me that it was to bad we could not do a .exe file and have it as simple as installing a program. That got me thinking and i went and researched it for a few hours and I found a few open source programs that just did that. Unsure which was the best, I downloaded one that had good possibilities and a friend sent me to another. Well, I downloaded both and installed them and the one a friend sent me to was just way to confusing. So i went to the other one and I was able to figure it out within a few hours.

The next day I packed up and made my first file. I tested it on my comp and saw that it installed everything to the right folders. Since my test went good I uploaded it to our site and had a few clan mates DL them and also try it. Everything worked on there end. We ended up going onto our server and play for a little bit. Maybe an hour into our game, the 2 of us that were still there both were banned for 2 min. In the PB message for why we were banned, was because of an Uninstall file that was created by the installer. Well, after we both removed the Uninstall file, we went back to playing as if nothing happened.

That night after playing I looked more into the .exe program to find that it did not have a feature to remove the uninstall file from being made, so that forced me to look at a few other programs and was able to find one that gave me the option to create one or not. So I recreate the .exe and actually made it better since the new program was overall better. After creating it and uploading, I made a forum post saying that anyone that happen to DL the installer to remove the uninstall.exe and for anyoen that didn't DL it, the new one was clean and okay to use.

Mind you this is still the end of October, well over 5 months ago.

Well, 5 days ago I got our new BFBC2 server streaming PBBans and PunksBusted. After 24 hours of our server being streamed, PunksBusted closed our account. I sent in the request to reactivate and they said they wont for I am banned. This was news to me. I asked why and they pointed to the day that I got banned for 2 min. I thought they were joking so I started to laugh and told them that its funny they are saying I am banned for I was just playing on several of there server streaming PunksBusted. Mind you that PBBans that is also streaming never banned me for this. I proceeded to say that, that day, I got banned for 2 min and explained what happened. They then proceeded to tell me that what I said is a lie and makes no sense. Then proceeded to ask me of proof, and the proof they wanted is that uninstall file that was created. News to me that now hacks come with uninstall files, allot has changed in the past 5 years from RTCW days.

Well, I replied back to them that they are asking for a file that caused issues for me 5+ months ago and expect me to hold on to it, I also proceeded to say that if I was "banned" would that mean I could not play on those server that I been playing on, that supposedly I cant for I been banned the past 5 months while playing on streamed servers of there's.

Well, all in all after I replied with the forum post that showed the date of the message and the message, also offered them to with remote connect or I will give them FTP access and they can check the date and time of the .exe file that was created and added which would also collaborate my story, they seem to refuse to get back to me.

So I am taking that either they can't take the proof of the story being true and the guy calling me a lair which the evidence in ANY court of law, if this was a judge and jury would be more then sufficient, but I also have members from 2 other clans that can back up this story.

I proceeded to talk to a friend from another clan that is a member here that also knew about the auto .exe and the problem I had with it the day I found out about the issue, trying to figure out why they can't believe me, especially since I am not asking to be unbanned from the server I still can play on even running there system, I am asking them to unban me so I can stream them. I can understand that they get 1000+ stories a week from people, but I can almost guess that 99.9999999999% of them are trying to get unbanned so they can play and I am asking to unban me so I can stream and help keep hackers off my servers. I just find it odd that though they say I am and have been banned, then why did I get the message for a 2 min ban and I could still play on server streaming them.

  • My question to all of you is, Do you think there is enough evidence that I am willing to provide is enough, along with the reason?
  • I also like to ask if any of you would actually hold onto the file for 5+ months if it had no effect on playing on streaming servers.
  • I also want to know, what your thoughts on there system saying that I am banned yet the availability for me to play on servers protected by them still is available? I started to think, now, do I really want to run a system like this. I just wounder how many innocent victims have had the misfortune of actually being banned, and also had them be rude to and really take no interest in finding out the truth, but rather make up there own false "truth" and stand by it.


Also I like to note that they said that the uninstall file is close to a uninstall of a known hack, so that got me wondering, I went and searched out EVERY uninstall file on my PC, and the darn-est thing, most of them came back with in a few KB of each other, some further then others, but all were roughly the same size.

My warning to server admins, if you create something that might benefit your clan and friends and you get banned for it, save the files for you never know when it will be needed.

Also, if any of you are from PunksBusted, I know I was told to keep quiet, but I feel the public should here how close minded you guys are.

If any of you have a story or an experience of being falsely accused by them or a similar group, I like to hear it, tell your story.
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:22 am

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I find this subject very interesting.

Slightly off topic but I was reading a similar case on the Modern Warfare 2 forums about someone getting banned by steam.

Everyone called him a hacker, and steam wouldn't revoke his ban. (and it was all because he installed a program that was supposed to boost his internet connection unbeknown to him) anyway..

What I find hard to understand is why companies like steam, punkbusted and alike all ban without a fair trial.

what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty ? it seems today that your guilty from the start and you don't get a say in the matter... lol guilty until proven innocent !!

I actually believe your story, and its like you say they there just not interested because as far as they see it you had a file in your directory that was not supposed to be there, and that's that.

I think more people should start to challenge these biast claims.

Surely without hard evidence its slander and misjudgement of character, and not to mention wasting the individual moneys spent on there games in the first place to get banned by them for no reason other than there system says you were cheating.

Gaming today is hard enough with cheaters and warez but it seems the genuine gamers are getting punished more and more all the time. Sad
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:16 pm

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I know its a little off topic, I wanted it to keep it with the hardcore gamers for they are probably the ones mostly effected. As for the program the person you were speaking of, sounds like "Gamebooster", which is a great program. but I have heard a few people having issues with it and the VAC system. I have been kicked by PB a few times but those were only kicks that last 0.01 of a second.sad thing is that I could go 3 hours or a month with no kick, then one day, I just get kicked and I just have to reconnect.

My experience with PunksBusted is not really me being banned, for I can still play on servers that stream them. If I was banned then I would have contacted them 5+ month ago when this happened and I would have had that file they wanted. but it comes down to me just wanting to stream them for BFBC2 and them telling me that I was banned, "News to me".

Overall I have to sit back and wounder how many stories they here, and when did they finally give up and stop trying to find out the truth and became power hungry. I talked to 1 admin that seemed to listen but the admin handling my case was a total prick and now wont respond to me about the case and the proof I am offering which should be more the sufficient to back up my story, and prove that his false assumption that he had calling me a liar was wrong. As he said, my story holds no water, but now I have to say, the proof I have makes his story hold no water and mine real.

personally, I think if the admins don't want to do it and don't care about the truth, then I think they should just stop and let someone else do it.
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:58 pm

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It sounds like he isnt going to say "Sorry" for calling you a liar,

I would ask for a second opinion by another admin... see where that goes
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:14 pm

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I guess the way it works is one admin handles the case and its his decision and that's final, but that's the impression I get. Overall, all this ban does is hinder me from streaming them, not me playing for there ban has not hindered me from going on any servers as they said it would.

Me, I just wanted the added security, but it also raises a question to me that if I actually want to run them for I really hate to have falsely banned people from my server. Back in the hay days when I worked on a council for RTCW Hackers, which was our version of Punksbusted, but with out the use of punkbuster to help us, we had to demo the possible hackers, then it would be like 50+ admins from many clans that would vote and discuss the person before we added them to the Master ban list. Usually it took only a few days tops for us to review and discuss and it was majority vote wins. I feel that out of every 1000 bans, we may have falsely banned someone but it was far less because we wouldn't ban on suspicion, we would only ban if the proof was there.

They on the other hand don't ban on that, they ban on the premise of yeah our system detected something that is close to what we know is a file that a hack has, though it don't match up 100%, we don't want to see your proof, we will stick by our system that we feel is fool proof. which anyone and everyone should know nothing is 100% fool proof. I mean how many times did I ban my self from this site and my site in the past, my site, I don't have enough fingers, this site, I would use almost all my fingers. It was almost a month straight I was bugging Floppy to unban me and most of the time he laughed at me for it was doing the same stupid things. But this was also before he made it so you could add php and html into forum post with the use of the BBcodes.
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:32 pm

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It sounds more like the latter

There relying on the system and the system is always right, if it says its bad it must be bad and your lying.

I guess its the old saying "Shit Happens" and there not going to review or change there mind from what your describing what ever you say.

Is it right ??? of course not, but there probably following protocol that some spotty nerd has wrote and they arnt allowed to deviate one little bit.
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:59 pm

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I think there really should be fair trials for anyone who gotten banned. Ped is absolutely right. They treat you like dirt and don't want to help you in anyway when your ban. PBBans and Punkbusted are not even real companies, I think. Aren't they just privately owned websites that provide a service? These people at Punksbusted and PBBans go around thinking they are enforcing the law, but the hell gives them the right to enforce it in the first place? I mean are these websites even licensed to even do what they are doing? Activision and IW allows Punkbusted and PBBans to ban genuine gamers or mistaken/misunderstood gamers to get banned?

The people who run these anti-hack systems just aren't right.
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:14 am

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I've also heard a storey similar to this one. I think clan admins should get together on a forum or something and discuss things like this regular, maybe people would create banners and stuff to put on their websites stating things like "punkbusted is not used on our servers" with a short explanation of why. The more clans that know about this the less they will use them. If most servers stop streaming the known anti-hack streaming systems that cause more problems than anything else eventually they will close up and admit defeat. No point them running if no one wants them or maybe they'll improve on their support to gain back their community. Most clans especially new clans find it hard enough to get people in a server without having some good gamers kicked out.

Anyways I just wanted to put my opinion accross
Hope you get sorted
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:29 am

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Well, tonight has been an interesting night. I guess after 3 months, they got back to me about I am guessing this post here. They wrote back to me that they don't like how I basically call them on there flawed system on forums post. After talking to a few well respected members of the gaming community, they agreed with me that I should call them on there system, even more so now then ever for it seems there are more and more people getting banned for false positive's.

I told them I don't care about being unbanned any more, and I will keep calling them and informing people of there flawed system.

I only know about my case where they are bugging me to give them a file from October last year that was a "crap" file. I don't know about most of you, but if you have something that is crap and caused you a bit of a problem with no foreseen effects, would you keep it. I wouldn't and I don't. I delete them for I can use the space for something better.

I did not know I was banned for 5 months, until they decided to tell me that I was. Pretty sad that it took them 5 months to tell me that I am banned, yet, though I am "banned", I can play on servers streaming them. Makes little sense to me. Especially when I was more annoyed and complaining to them because I wanted them streaming on my clans BFBC2 server.

So in my closing statement, I will warn all that stream PsB on your game servers, DON'T. You may get banned for being you, and as me being living proof playing on servers streaming them, they don't even work and your more opt to get banned your self or ban a innocent player, then catch a real hacker....

STREAM PBBANS, Boycott PsB...




EDIT:
strike4ce wrote:
I've also heard a storey similar to this one. I think clan admins should get together on a forum or something and discuss things like this regular, maybe people would create banners and stuff to put on their websites stating things like "punkbusted is not used on our servers" with a short explanation of why. The more clans that know about this the less they will use them. If most servers stop streaming the known anti-hack streaming systems that cause more problems than anything else eventually they will close up and admit defeat. No point them running if no one wants them or maybe they'll improve on their support to gain back their community. Most clans especially new clans find it hard enough to get people in a server without having some good gamers kicked out.

Anyways I just wanted to put my opinion accross
Hope you get sorted


Sorry, must of missed this post. But a while back ago, when i first started gaming MP online, was with RTCW 1.0. Back then, there was no punkbuster in RTCW, it was not implemented till version 1.3. But my clan started on version 1.0 as did many others and stayed there till the end, and what we did was actually have the admins control the baning of the servers. The clan owner of my clan even started up a site that was a mix of admins from 30+ clans, and we would post video's of the suspected players and have the admins vote on it and if the person was found guilty, they were added to the MBL, (Master Ban List). Majority votes won and it could take a week or a month before the IP may be added to the MBL, but individual server would have the IP if they wanted to add the ban them selves to there server.

That way it was more human interaction and not reliant on a system that looks for any potential file that possible could be a hack. I really hate to be a new comer to map making or even adding a map and loads it wrong, they may find that as a hack and ban you.

Usually after we vited and posted and it was confermed, me and one of our clan leaders liked to make video's of how easy it was to catch them and how pathetic they are, here are a few links to the video's.

RTCW Demo tribute
[HS] Hackers V1
[HS] Hackers V2

but I agree with you, I think it needs to be more human control over server and not reliant on what clearly is a flawed system, Almost as bad as Steam, and we all know how bad they are...
 

 
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Post Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:35 pm

Furion, meaning myself, had a run in with these guys as well.

Months ago, we got involved in the from BF2 AiX mod. To run an AiX server we had to get streaming from either PBBANS or PUNKSBUSTED. A friend of mine took legal action against PUNKSBUSTED so I decided to go with PBBANS.

After doing everything that was asked of me, registering, and providing all information they requested. One of their Admins started talking about all this extra stuff for me to do. I replied that, it sounded nice but all I wanted to do was get the streaming, which was a requirement by the creators of the AiX mod and game with my friends. Boy-boy did they hit the roof. The next thing I knew I was getting flamed in their forums and on my website by their members. As you can imagine everthing went down hill from there. Of course came the accusations, then the information I sent was missing or incomplete, then somewhow a member of our clan was a hacker and so on. If it wasn't one thing, it was another. This is why I now own www.pbbanz.com and I'm thinking of making it a gay porn site for midgets. The verdict is still out on that.

I had no choice then and went to PUNKSBUSTED as a last resort and of course, they are in bed together. If you look at the admins-moderators on both sites, you will find the similarities. We were denied of course.

Dealing with these assholes, was not by any means, pleasant. Everyone needs to be made aware of these idiots and the crap they bestow upon the gaming community.
 

 
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Post Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:59 pm

Food for thought:

I'm not saying to do so, but if someone was to look into a lawsuit for illegal business practices and monopolization, one could probably sue the crap out of them for a number of illegal practices. Keep in mind, this would be the 1st against a gaming monoplization, who knows where it may or may not go. Also, subpoena all site backups and records. Note: they violate their own terms of services frequently.

When you subpoena the Owner-Admins-Moderators, they have to come to your jurisdiction, your state, your city, so make sure you have the sufficient laws and an eager legal system that wants to right wrongs. Be mindful of the ages of the people you are going to subpoena, juveniles may require a different process. Get all the juveniles you can... courts don't like juveniles being used in a contractual manner and will burn the shit out of them for it.

It wouldn't take much to shut their business down for a long-long time, if not for good. All it takes is a Judges order, easy enough. The pitfall is, when you do this, you will not only shut down PUNKSBUSTED, but PBBANZ as well. It could also possibly shut down PunkBuster. PB will tell you that they are a totally seperate entity from the other two and therefore should not be named, but this is untrue, the streaming is based off PB's program.

If you shut down PB, well, look around and see how many games use it. You will shut down a ton of servers and games. You may not be the hero of the gaming community you thought you'd be. Well, at least not at first.

Again, this is just food for thought...
 

 
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Post Re: Punks busted, busted??? Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:51 am

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Overall, servers that want to run them then go ahead. I streamed them a while, serveral years with no problems. I only got the violation from Punks Busted, not pbbans nor punkbuster. Overall, my feelings is that server admins need to take the hacking issue into there own hands and stop relying on these second hand programs. They are flawed just like humans, but if a site was set up where streaming admins and upload videos, review them and others review them and take a vote on them, I believe that system will work better then what is out there.

With that, admins will be more involved with there server and hackers being more weary. I mean it comes to a few basic steps that people have to do to get demo's and have them legit and able to be used in the "Prosecution". Like what we did with RTCW and can be done here because most bans now are by GUID and not IP, is to have 3 requirements to submit a possible hacker.

  1. A programs of some sort needs to record at least a min if not more of the possible hacker and needs to show what you suspect to be hacking.
  2. Full IP and GUID must be show in demo, through console, If game does not have console, then use a second hand program and take a screenshot of it will matching names.
  3. time, date, server name and IP must be given.


Those are the basics but even then there are flaws, especially with the games that for not have console, you are relying on the screenshot to match the video and your relying on the admin to be honest.

But with what we did, we did have an appeal center where people could appeal there ban and sometimes we revoked them, though my favorite excuses were, "my brother/sister used them using my name", or "I was testing it out to see what the big deal was.". Things like that.

But overall, I feel that server admins have gotten lazy. I know in COD4, there is now a way to give different levels of admin power, so you can have several different levels of admin, like we had in RTCW. Where level 1 admins only had the ability to see IP, and level 5 had full power. and 2,3,and 4 had slightly more each step you went up.

But if someone could set up with a few of these mod creators and can get enough clans to support it, I guarantee a MBL, (Master Ban List), can be implemented into the mods where anyone running the mod Could rely on the MBL to keep hackers off along with if they wanted, shotty groups like PunksBusted.
 

 
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